PROBE: Sally, how much would you say that it's a sex thing, putting on a costume?
SALLY: No. I don't ... Well, let me say this, for me, it was never a sex thing. It was a money thing. And I think for some people it was a fame thing, and for a tiny few, God bless 'em, I think it was a goodness thing. I mean, I'm not saying it wasn't a sex thing for some people, but, no, no, I wouldn't say that's what motivated the majority
...
PROBE: There was Ursula Zandt, the Silhouette ...
SALLY: Uh-huh. Well, sooner or later, okay, that's going to come up, so let me deal with that ... First off, I didn't like her as a person. I mean, she was not an easy person to get along with. But, when the papers got hold of it, her being --- what is it --- a gay woman they say nowadays when that happened, I thought it was wrong. I mean, Laurence, who was my first husband, he got everybody to throw her out of the group to minimise the P.R. damage, but ... I mean, I voted along with everybody else, but ... well, it wasn't fair. It wasn't honest. I mean, she wasn't the only gay person in the Minutemen. Some professions, I don't know, they attract a certain type ...
PROBE: Who else was gay?
SALLY: I'm not naming anybody. It was a couple of the guys, and they're both dead now. One died recently. I'm not saying who it was, I'm just saying that we all knew, and we knew she wasn't the only one, and we slung her out just the same. When she got murdered like that ... I mean, I never really liked her. Ursula. Was that her real name? I didn't know that. I didn't like her but ... throwing her out. We shouldn't have done that. I feel bad about that.
PROBE: On the subject of the Minutemen, in Hollis Mason's autobiography ...
SALLY: Uh-oh! Here it comes.
PROBE: ... he alleges that you were sexually assaulted by the Comedian, who, as you know, is still active. You never said too much about the incident yourself ...
SALLY: Well, why break a lifetime's habit?
PROBE: You won't comment upon that?
SALLY: I ... Look, I don't bear any grudges. That's all. I know I should, everybody tells me I should but ... look, I don't have to justify this, okay? It's just that nothing's that simple, not even things that are simply awful. You know, rape is rape and there's no excuse for it, absolutely none, but for me, I felt ... I felt like I'd contributed in some way. Is that misplaced guilt, whatever my analyst said? I really felt like that, that I was somehow as much to blame for ... for letting myself be his victim not in a physical sense, but ... but, it's like what if, y'know? What if, just for a moment, maybe I really did want ... I mean, that doesn't excuse him, doesn't excuse either of us, but with all that doubt, what it comes to terms with it, I can't stay angry when I'm so uncertain about my own feelings ...
...
PROBE: You're retired now, and it seems your daughter has been groomed to follow in your footsteps. Having seen the lifestyle for yourself, how do you feel about that?
SALLY: Mm. That's tough. I guess, in a lot of ways, it was me who pushed Laurie, that my daughter, pushed her into this line of work ... I know that when she's upset about something she always blames me for shoving her into such a weird career, but underneath somewhere, I think she secretly kinda likes it. She likes to bitch about it, but what else would she have done? Been a housewife? Got a job in a bank? So she didn't have a normal life! What's so good about normal life? Normal life stinks! You can ask anybody! No, no, of course, I'm her mother, I get worried about her. But in the end, I think she'll see what it was I gave her. I think she'll start to see her life next to the lives of other kids and she'll start thinking in terms of what I saved her from instead of what I condemned her to.
PROBE:. You think so?
SALLY: I hope so...
"You know; rape is rape and there's no excuse for it, absolutely none, but for me, I felt ... I felt like I'd contributed in some way."
Probe September 1976 p.22
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